Confused on which Minor scale to use

[wccook2]

Willie,

I have always had trouble understanding what minor scale is to be used for improv or short fills.
In the Diatonic scale there are three (or 4?) minor chords - Dorian, Phyrgian, Aeolian, and perhaps Locrian.

Because of the ii - V being so frequent, I assume that most times you are thinking "Dorian"?

So when looking at a leadsheet, is there a somewhat simple way to think of which minor scale is to be used as a source of notes? Do you have to be very cognizant of the function the minor chord is in? (Tonic, ii, iii, vi, vii dim).

Thanks for your excellent teaching - I have learned MUCH more from you than the many years I invested with an expensive live jazz piano teacher who just played and expected you to just learn from hearing him play - very frustrating!

Bill

[salvatore1]

Interesting question. In my personal study of Jazz harmony I asked myself the same question. I am not sure if I got the right answer, but in the book by Irvine on Jazz theory I learned that Dorian is suitable for , say a D-7 (ii) chord/scale impro. The Phrygian for Esusb9 (iii) chord/scale impro. The Locrian for B-7b5 (vii) impro. As we are learning from Willie I think we need to take theory with a pinch of salt and as guideline: finally our musician's ear will guide us through the process!
Sal

[wmyette]

As with all of these chord-scale books and references it has to be taken with a grain of salt.

Think of it like a language. We know words to use when speaking but are sometimes at a loss at the moment for the right word. Instead we fill in something else that is similar.

In improv, we can always look back and see "yes, this scale would have been a better choice" but in the moment if we think that way our improv will suffer.

I like to base my improvisation off of the chords. I learned years ago that if you take a chord, let's use AbMaj7 in this case.

The notes are: Ab-C-Eb-G.

Next, look at the chord symbol. It is Major right? So then we know that the 9-#11-6 all work on major chords. So we can "fill in" the rest of the notes:

Ab-Bb-C-D-Eb-F-G

We might decide to use the 5th instead of the #11 or even use both. By thinking of chords and scales this way, I believe that you are thinking more like a composer rather than just memorizing the "right" scale for the chord.

Does this make sense?

[wccook2]

It does help to understand that you should not focus on specific scales. Your example was Major with #11. With three minor chords, do you there also just think of what notes work with minor - and not too concerned as to whether it is ii, iii, or vi?

[wmyette]

Yes, exactly. It is important to know the function of a chord, but when dealing with diatonic chords like ii - iii and vi I think that it is just as easy to think Major scale and chord tones/tensions