Triads over Tritones

[ricoche]

Hello everyone,

I'm looking for some help regarding how this gentleman may have come up with the following triads played over a couple of tritones. I understand how the tritones were found, but I am not sure about how the triads were developed. Do you see a pattern here?

I understand Willie has discussed Tritones with regards to Substitution and Dom7 chords, but I can't find any info with regards to Triads and Tritones like this. I really like how this sounds.

Here is basically my notes of the Youtube video.

Video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYcCq8YadLM

Key of C

Chord Progression
I-IV Groove in C
CMaj9-FMaj9
CMaj9 LH(C,G) RH(B,D,E,G)
FMaj9 LH(F,G,A) RH(C,E,G)

Substitute CMaj9 with Key of C Tritone (E-Bb)
Substitute FMaj9 with Key of F Tritone (F-Eb)

Triads in the right hand over tritones in the left hand.
Amin (E,A,C) triad over C Tritone
Gmin (D,G,Bb) triad over C Tritone
D7b5 (D,Ab,C) triad over C Tritone
Abmaj (Eb,Ab,C) triad over C Tritone
Amaj (E,A,Db) triad over C Tritone
F#maj (C#,F#,A#) triad over C Tritone
Ebmaj (Eb,G,Bb) play together - triad over C Tritone
Dbmaj (Db,F,Ab) play together - triad over C Tritone
Ebmin (Eb,Gb,Bb) triad over C Tritone
Dmin (D,F,A) triad over C Tritone
Gdim (G,Bb,Db) triad over C Tritone
F#min (C#,F#,A) triad over C Tritone
Dmaj (D,Gb,A) triad over C Tritone
Fmin (C,F,Ab) triad over C Tritone
DbAug (Db,F,A) triad over C Tritone
Dbmin (Db,E,Ab) triad over C Tritone
E7sus4 (E,A,D) triad over C Tritone
Eb7sus4 (Eb,Ab,Db) triad over C Tritone
A7sus4 (A,D,G) triad over C Tritone

Now the triads are played over the C Tritone, but it was mentioned that you can basically mix and match triads interchangeably over the F Tritone as well. I find this works particularly well with the Sus4 chords. If correct, you can play for example:

A7sus4 over the C tritone and then back to E7sus4 over the F tritone to substitute the entire progression. It sounds good to my ear and kind of funky as well.

Thanks for any input. Much appreciated.

Jim

[place]

To me, these seem basically like upper structure triads (UST). Some of them give you more tensions than others but since the basic chord is C7 your list of available tensions is rather large (most anything works with the dominant chord but you need to be cautious about the 11 and the natural 7). The first example (Am chord over the tritone) is C7 with an added 13--the E is just the 3rd and the G is the 5th. Another ex. would be the D major chord which adds the 9, #11, and 13 to the C7 shell.

Hope that makes sense.
Mark

[ricoche]

Thank you Mark! Indeed I was thinking these could be simply UST chords. I think you are correct. It's interesting among the Gospel Musician community how there are so many different interpretations and ways people are showing the tritones. It makes it kind of confusing at times. Thanks very much for the reply.

Jim

[wmyette]

Hey Jim,

Thanks for posting the link. He is indeed playing a tritone in the video, but NOT a tritone substitution.

OK, here is the difference:

The tritone is an interval. It is the mid-point in the octave. So, C to F# is the interval of a tritone. To find a tritone, just pick any note and count up 6 half steps (not including the note you start on).

So, Let's take the note 'F'. The tritone of F would be F#-G-G#-A-Bb....B. So, F and B create the -interval- of a tritone.

Mark is absolutely right...what the guy on the video is playing is Upper Structure Triads or UST for short.

Let's go back to the tritone interval. EVERY dominant 7th chord has a tritone interval within it. In fact, this interval was know as the 'devil' interval and could not be played for years for fear of ex-communication from the church.

A C7 has the notes: C-E-G-Bb. From E to Bb, that is a tritone.

So....the guy on the video is playing ONLY the tritones of the dominant 7th chord while playing a triad in the right hand. An upper structure triad. It is called an upper structure triad, because it usually contains the tensions and "upper structures" of the chord (9,11,13).

If you check out DVD702 (http://www.mylessonclub.com/students/view-lesson?a=play&dvd=DVD702&id=320) you will see detailed instruction on the UST's.

Hope this helps!

[wmyette]

Another thing. I would avoid calling what is being played in the left-hand on the video a tritone.

YES, it is the interval of a tritone, but it gets way too confusing because to most musicians, tritones call to mind a tritone substitution.

What I was taught, and works well, is to call them the guide tones. Guide tones are the 3+7 of the chord (sometimes others like b5 on a -7b5 chord)

So, left hand is playing Guide Tones with a UST on top.

[ricoche]

Thanks very much Willie and Mark for the follow-up and information. I think I understand very well now what is happening in the video. What you're saying makes sense and I'll definitely follow the tips you mentioned. I also checked out a couple of videos in the "Tritones & Phat Chords" section under Gospel lessons. The "Voicings with U.S.T." and "Using the U.S.T chart" were very helpful in reinforcing what's going on. In fact that entire DVD is awesome!

I think what confused me the most was that the guy in the video was throwing around the word "tritones" a lot and although the interval was there, I never really heard anybody explain it that way, so it became confusing. When I think of it now as 3+7 Guide tones in the left with UST on the right, it all comes together in my head better.

Thanks again and I'm glad Willie that things appear to be looking up.

Regards,

Jim

[wmyette]

Thanks Jim. And a note to everyone. BE CAREFUL of what you view on YouTube.

YES, there is a lot of great information, but there is also a lot of bad information as well. If you run into a confusing description, do what Jim did, post here and I and others can get you on the right track.

There is nothing worse than learning theory the wrong way then trying to "untangle" and re-learn the right way. I see a lot of "teaching" on Youtube and elsewhere and shake my head. I am glad to see people sharing their knowledge, but if they are steering you in the wrong direction, they actually do you more harm than good.

I am going to be testing out some new "mini lessons" so post your questions here and I can respond via video as well to make sure that everyone is on the right track.

Lastly, I do not know everything...but I do my research. I will research a topic before I teach it and if I make a mistake, I quickly post an errata video.

Great post Jim, thanks again for bringing this up. I know that this will help clear up the concept for others as well!

[ricoche]

Hello Mark and Willie,

I did some analysis on the triads I posted above mainly using Willie's UST chord sheet from the Gospel Tritone Phat Chords lesson. I was able to pull out all of the major and minor UST's, but I noticed none of the Augmented chords were played. Plus there were a few other upper structure triads played in the video that I'm not sure where they came from. I was wondering if you might have an explanation or idea as to how some of these were derived.

Major U.S.T.
Dbmin (Db,E,Ab) triad over C Tritone (bii)
Ebmin (Eb,Gb,Bb) triad over C Tritone (biii)
F#min (C#,F#,A) triad over C Tritone (#iv)
Amin (E,A,C) triad over C Tritone (vi)
Gmin (D,G,Bb) triad over C Tritone (v)

Minor U.S.T.
E7sus4 (E,A,D) triad over C Tritone (II)
Ebmaj (Eb,G,Bb) play together (bIII)
F#maj (C#,F#,A#) triad over C Tritone (#IV)
Abmaj (Eb,Ab,C) triad over C Tritone (bVI)
Amaj (E,A,Db) triad over C Tritone (VI)

These I am not sure how they are related although they were played in the video.

Dmin (D,F,A) triad over C Tritone
Fmin (C,F,Ab) triad over C Tritone
Gdim (G,Bb,Db) triad over C Tritone
Dbmaj (Db,F,Ab) triad over C Tritone
Dmaj (D,Gb,A) triad over C Tritone
D7b5 (D,Ab,C) triad over C Tritone
DbAug (Db,F,A) triad over C Tritone
Eb7sus4 (Eb,Ab,Db) triad over C Tritone
A7sus4 (A,D,G) triad over C Tritone

Augmented U.S.T. - These were not played in the video near as I can tell, but they were mentioned on Willie's UST chart.

D,F#,A# (D,E,Bb) (II+)
E,G#,C (E,Ab,C) (III+)
F#,A#,D (E,Bb,D) (#IV+)
G#,C,E (Ab,C,E) (#V+)
A#,D,F# (Bb,D,E) (bVII+)

I'm basically just trying to see how these are developed a little bit. The chord chart that Willie presented is very clear, but my thinking is there are

(1) Additional Upper Structure Triads that can be played in addition to the chart, or

(2) Some of the chords are derived by some other means.

No need to take a lot of time on this, I was just was curious if anyone might see a quick pattern that I am missing. I am really enjoying the creative use of these USTs.

I also noticed reading around on the Internet in other forums, that it seems quite a few piano players either learn or practice their USTs over tritones or (3+7 Guide Tones).

I'll check out some of your other lessons dealing with USTs in other styles Willie. That may help quite a bit as well.

Thanks very much!

Jim