Tritones

[place]

I love the Tritones and Phat chord lesson. Awesome!

Although Willie clearly lists at least 4 or 5 different methods on how to find tritone intervals (with the best method being memorize them all) I thought I'd add one more method to the fray.

This method also explains why they are called "tri" "tones," literally "three-notes." Simply count up (or down) 3 whole steps from the note and you've got your tritone. Remember not to count the note your starting on.

Ex: Starting on C go up one whole step to D, one more to E and one more to F#. That's it. I hope this can help someone (and not just add more confusion!)

I was "classically" trained and these tritone substitutions were basically "Neapolitan-sixth chords" which were no fun at all. This "fresh" approach is extremely helpful for me, and way easier to remember. Thanks Willie.

Mark

[ricoche]

I love the Tritones and Phat chord lesson. Awesome!

This method also explains why they are called "tri" "tones," literally "three-notes." Simply count up (or down) 3 whole steps from the note and you've got your tritone. Remember not to count the note your starting on.



Thanks Mark!

I'm kind of new to Tritones and am watching Willie's video on the subject. I mainly use tritones based off the V chord or Dominant 7th chord. I believe that means I count up six to find the tritone Dominant 7th chord if correct.

I'm curious by counting up/down 3 whole steps how that will fit in. Meaning, these are tritones that will work within the specific key or scale?

I'll probably play around with this an find out for myself, but I was curious about how you implemented this technique in Classical Music versus someone like myself in Jazz or Gospel.

Interesting subject and thanks again for the tip.

Jim

[place]

Hey Jim,
All tritiones are created equal. Whatever method you use to find one, it will always be the same one. A tritone away from C is always F# and a tritione away from F# is always C. 6 half-steps is the same as 3 whole steps, which is the same as dividing the octave, which is the same as a half-step less than the perfect fifth.

As it applies to substitutions, a Db chord is always the substitution for a G7 NO MATTER THE KEY. And not only when G7 is the V7 chord. ANY dom7 chord in "sound" not just in "function". I hope that's making sense.

As for the classical application it is basically the same although neapolitan chords were more often used as an approach chord rather than a substitute. So the progression C F G became C Db G. Anyway, that's another story...

Good Stuff!
Mark

[ricoche]

Thanks Mark!

That makes sense and upon further thought I see it's all the same. I like your tip very much as it seems to get me to where I want to go faster. I've been playing around with it today and it's awesome. Thank you for the reply.

Regards,

Jim

[gibolson]

Early in the Amazing Grace lesson, Willie demonstrated an altered scale desending in an improv and resolving to Cm. It looked like it occurred in a 2-5-1 which was Dm - G7 - Cm. Well, I believe that the Tritone interval to Dm is Ab and the altered scale appeared to be an Abm7 or similar. In my 6-2-5-1 practises I have been trying that and it seems to work. (not playing the tritone chord, but doing a little improv on the altered scale.) Anyone wish to expand on this??

TNX
Gib

[williemyette]

Hey Gib, give me a chapter and time and I'll take a look for you.

Tritones replace dom7 chords only. So, it would be a Db7, the tritone of G7.

so a tritone substitution in a Dm - G7 - Cm progression would be Dm - Db7 - Cm

-w

[place]

Hi Gib,
I should probably shut-up and let Willie reply, but my understanding is that you can generally use the altered scale on any dom7 chord with tensions added. The alt scale for the G7 would be an Ab major scale with a flated 3rd starting on G. You could improv based on an altered scale on a tritone sub chord too because it is also a dom7 chord. I think that both the original scale (Ab w/b3 starting on G) or a new one based on the sub chord (in this case DMajor w/flat 3rd starting on Db) would work.
Mark

[gibolson]

To clarify, this is what I have been trying.... start with Dm, then improv play a bit on Abm7 with the G7 in the left hand and resolving to C (or Cm).

I have been practicing the 6-2-5-1 with start at C then A7-9-flat13 (?) then Dm then Abm7 with G7 and C.

I go up a semitone and do the same with the corresponding chords etc... and continue on all the way up... then down.

I am a bit of a stickler for practising technique.
(not having a keyboard in front of me, I am somewhat guessing on the above, but I think I have it...)

Re chapter etc... Fills, Runs, Improv Pt 1. Close to the beginning of that one where you say this is a nice one... and you use it quite a bit. (and etc.)

Am I confused or am I hearing something and not naming it right.

TNX
Gib

[williemyette]

Ah, no you got it...pretty much.

Over the G7 chord, you are essentially playing a G altered scale.

Now, to get the altered scale, you do go up a 1/2 step (Ab in this case) and create a melodic minor scale on that note. The melodic minor scale is the Major scale with a flatted third.

So, Ab Major scale is: Ab - Bb - C - Db - Eb - F - G - Ab

Ab melodic minor scale is: Ab - Bb - [Cb] - Db - Eb - F - G - Ab

Then, go back down to G and play that Ab melodic minor scale STARTING on G. So, notice the shift of the notes:

G - Ab - Bb - [Cb] - Db - Eb - F - G

By shifting those notes to start and end on G, you establish G as the key center or key "tone"